NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM

NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:45 am
Posts: 50
Location: QLD, Australia
Hey guys.

I'll be purchasing a 40mm suspension kit (Dobinson's springs/Bilstein shocks) in the near future and fitting them myself.

I'm a qualified heavy diesel mechanic and have done enough of this in the past, but the kicker is that due to my new job ive been off the tools/any kind of that work for about 5 years. So is there any particular 'funnies' with working on new diesels? (I used to work on much older diesels, Leylands/Volvos/CATs etc, so the whole DPF/EGR/ABS/Traction control/Computer sensor things is relatively new to me).

As its only a 40mm lift im not fitting a diff drop (I'll be fitting FWH's at the same time) and am fairly confident I will not need to space down the tailshaft or put wedges under the rear spring packs to fix(?) the input angle of the tailshaft-diff

I'll take a heap of photos throughout the process so it can maybe be a sticky for others who want to have a crack.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 1402
Depending on the leaf springs and how they end up holding your diff pinion attitude after the fitting, will determine if you require and angle adjustment of the rear axle. If possible, I would measure the front and rear uni drive angles with a digital angle gauge while it is STD. THEN you have something to compare to after susp fitting. All unis should run around 3 degrees, maybe a bit more. They should also be near to the same angle to cancel out tailshaft rotational vibes and not destroy the diff pinion. IMHO.most will require adjustment by wedges.
Generally the lowering of the rear axle increases the drive angle at a rate of 3x any change in the front uni, therefore correction is probably best.
If no angle gauge available, you can cut the angles from cardboard To measure them and record and compare with how they are after fitting. Recommended.
That way you know the degrees and how much is required. Generally the pinion centreline should aim at or a little below the rear of the transfer case. Many springs point the pinion downward and problems then arise.
Reading up on the newer systems you mentioned will bring you up to date with it all. Having a code reader or Ultra gauge or Scangauge is good to have, not only to assist locating problems but also resetting the fault code which has been registered in the ECU so you can get it out of limp mode. Really good if travelling outback, otherwise a trip away can be ruined. “Insurance”

Hope it goes well

mydmax


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:45 am
Posts: 50
Location: QLD, Australia
Thanks for the advice mate.

yeah those angles were something I definitely wanted to check. Ill compare to stock and go from there.

However AFAIK ARB/TJM don't include wedges/tail shaft lower parts in their setups?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
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I am not surprised the companies don’t include the use of wedges. They usually have to be dragged kicking and screaming to fit them even after they claim they can’t detect the vibes which are evident to everyone else.
I have seen one company finally agree to rectify the axle angle and proceeded to fit the wedges completely the wrong way around and made the problem far worse. They were so confident they didn’t test it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
Posts: 3198
Location: Darwin... sort of.
The "40mm" lift will be for the front only, the rear usually goes up considerably further and that's what will cause the vibration in the driveline. Mine went up 70mm in the rear and required 2 spacers at the centre bearing of about 10-15mm because mine was manual with a 2 piece shaft, if however you have an auto then you will have a one piece tailshaft and should be ok as the changed angle is much less severe owing to the longer length of the shaft.
There's info on the forum on how to space the shaft and what to use if you need to.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:08 am 
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If 40mm raise at the front, the adjustment for the front end alignment may be at or near to fully used up seeing there is only adjustment on the bottom arm bolt cams. The toe in will go wildy severely toe OUT until the tie rods are adjusted shorter. Make sure you adjust them evenly otherwise you may exceed the steering angle sensor position which uses the steering angle of the shaft to determine stability control factors if and when it has to function. Just an awareness thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
Mine went toe IN....? I have the print out somewhere and you could see it with the naked eye anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
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G'Day Danno
With the top arm lowering it moves the top ball joint more to the vehicle centreline, if the bottom arm lowers, it is effectively rotating the lower ball joint down and toward the centre as well. That means the steering arm is taken inward and with the rack at the front it should make it toe out.

Mine is the earlier shape but the steering geometry is much the same. My tie rods had to be shortened as it lifted.
Maybe they behave differently somehow.

If you park thes downhill forward,the front lowers and they toe in because the ball joints are moving outward sightly. That is the way I see it all.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
Things like the initial angle of the steering arms/tie rods which in my case were already sloped down 5-7 degrees (factory) and the length of the arms would come into play here, obviously the shorter the arms/rods the tighter the arc and the more severe the toe change (and bump steer if that concerns you in a 4wd). Had the rods not already been sloping downwards it may well have gone slightly toe out but mine was lifted about 65mm at the front initially and obviously the arc of the tie rods was more severe than the overall reduction in wheel track, and believe me the reduction in wheel track was very noticeable to the eye.

The main concern for lifts on these vehicles is the fact that some can handle a 65mm lift and still maintain factory camber settings (like mine) at the expense of some castor but others with even a 35mm lift will struggle and end up running about -1 to -1.5 degrees negative which of course chews out the inner tyres very quickly, this in my experience comes down to two things 1. The talent level (or lack of) of the wheel aligner and 2. Manufacturing tolerances. It's luck of the draw for number two but number one can usually be handled with some research.

For those that aren't aware of the effect of a reduction of castor mentioned above that you would actually feel, a very basic explanation is it's what makes the steering wheel self centre when you let it go so if you reduce it it will slow that down a bit to the point where it might wonder around a little or a lot if you go too far. Most put larger tyres on at the same time as the lift and just think it's the wider tyres causing it. With a solid front 4wd an RTC (return to centre) steering damper will help but this is not possible on an IFS vehicle.

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