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 Post subject: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
Posts: 3198
Location: Darwin... sort of.
Got a bit of a shock the other night, went to the shops, got back in the car, put my foot on the brake and the pedal went most of the way to the floor.... it pumps up so it's probably air, if not the master cylinder has packed up, the car still stops ok but it's not want you want from your new car especially from the brake system.
Problem is I'm loath to take it to Isuzu because among other things I don't want them seeing all the mods to this truck and noting them down..and yes they bloody well do, I might just bleed it out and if that works well and good but I'm still left wondering why...

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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 1402
Danno
Unlike older vehicles which had to retain pedal height even for a raodworthy, modern vehicles have different primary cups in the master cylinders and many times there is NO air in the system but the fluid escapes around the seal lip and to behind the piston head. Hence the pedal goes down alarmingly.

Usually if you pedal it hard and fast, it will create a sudden pressure which doesn't have time to escape and it then seals as a solid pedal feel.

Slow or soft application often manifests itself as pedal sink before any feel. A repetitive pumping of the pedal will sort it out and then it seals.

Back a few years ie 5 years, I spoke to the national recall manager in Can'tborough, and he stated all the vehicle which it happens in. Toyota, Honda, Nissans, Hyundai, and many others.
Our '07 corolla did it in early times but has become ok and not now a problem.

The current accepted theory is, It has to be able to apply the brakes and it will stop even though it is worrying. Sufficient application to stop the vehicle is all they require. A bit silly but that is the way many are.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
mydmax wrote:
Danno
Unlike older vehicles which had to retain pedal height even for a raodworthy, modern vehicles have different primary cups in the master cylinders and many times there is NO air in the system but the fluid escapes around the seal lip and to behind the piston head. Hence the pedal goes down alarmingly.

Usually if you pedal it hard and fast, it will create a sudden pressure which doesn't have time to escape and it then seals as a solid pedal feel.

Slow or soft application often manifests itself as pedal sink before any feel. A repetitive pumping of the pedal will sort it out and then it seals.

Back a few years ie 5 years, I spoke to the national recall manager in Can'tborough, and he stated all the vehicle which it happens in. Toyota, Honda, Nissans, Hyundai, and many others.
Our '07 corolla did it in early times but has become ok and not now a problem.

The current accepted theory is, It has to be able to apply the brakes and it will stop even though it is worrying. Sufficient application to stop the vehicle is all they require. A bit silly but that is the way many are.


Are you saying it's going to be like that for good? I don't like the way it suddenly happened.
But like I said it will still brake hard enough to engage the ABS, it just doesn't feel right.

Anyone else noticed the same thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:51 pm
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Location: God's country
Danno wrote:
Anyone else noticed the same thing?


Not with my D-Max mate, no.

Just to share a story..... I had a gradually failing brake pedal in my LN106 Hilux. Took it to a 'reputable' mob to fix, who primarily deal in brakes.

They reconditioned the master cylinder and fitted stainless steel bits into it, new seals etc. Cost me a couple of hundred bucks, drive-in, drive-out deal as I ain't no mechanic.

The next day, I noticed the pedal started to sink to the floor. Few pumps and it would hold but only for a while. Bit disconcerting, as I was by then on an interstate trip for the week.

When I got back, I immediately took it back to them. They claimed they'd never heard of this happening, can't be our workmanship etc. Demonstrated them the pedal sinking to the floor. Hmmmm they said. No fluid is leaking anywhere.

They took the master cylinder off again, and stripped it back down. To their credit, they admitted there was a slight pinch in one of the rubber seals they had fitted which was causing fluid to run through. And they were quite humble and apologised.

And it was all good from that point again!


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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:54 pm
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Location: Darling Downs. Qld
Previous work vehicle was a Ford Territory. Sitting at the lights, with some pressure on the brake pedal, and the pedal would gradually go to the floor. Had it looked at by Ford a couple of times and apparantly that is how they were. Always braked OK.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
Tink wrote:
Previous work vehicle was a Ford Territory. Sitting at the lights, with some pressure on the brake pedal, and the pedal would gradually go to the floor. Had it looked at by Ford a couple of times and apparantly that is how they were. Always braked OK.


But does your Dmax do it?

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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Location: Darling Downs. Qld
Now that was a silly omission :P

No, the Dmax does not do it just the Found On Rubbish Dump Territory.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
Well I'm not paying 40 odd grand for a car that's brake pedal sinks to the floor, there's no way any dealer could ever convince me that's normal.

Imagine arriving at the end of Conrod straight and your engineer gets on the radio and says to you...ummmm...Dan, byyy the way...don't be alarmed if the pedal goes to the floor....it's perfectly normal..... :roll: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:54 pm
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Location: Darling Downs. Qld
Let us know what the dealer reckons. I would not be happy either.

BTW, what mods are you worried about the dealer making a note of? I couldn't see anything in your build thread that would impact your warranty.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
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Location: Darwin... sort of.
Tink wrote:
Let us know what the dealer reckons. I would not be happy either.

BTW, what mods are you worried about the dealer making a note of? I couldn't see anything in your build thread that would impact your warranty.


Tink, that build thread is about 4 months behind,

They take note of everything that is done no matter what it is so that in the event of a warranty claim they have all the ammo to try to knock you back.
My way of thinking is that if you do have an issue with something that you've modified, let's say the fuel filters (not in the build thread) and you have a fuel pump issue completely unrelated to the filters, the first thing they'll do is point at the filter and say "that's what did it!" your then put in the position of having to prove it didn't, better they never knew it was there in the first place and wheel it in to the dealership back to factory spec and save yourself the hassle.
This is just a rough example but the a#s covering point is there.

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