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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:43 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: West Gippsland Victoria
I was just talking about the normal crappy operation of the switch .

What you describe would be a PITA , could really put ya in the Shyte in really steep country , I hope if something breaks it's not the trans , I can hear em now you broke it operator error .


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:20 pm 
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garrytre
I would be suspecting the SOTF system and if there is no wiring/cabling and connecting plugs causing the intermittent operation I would look as the short drive shaft which is in one side of the front diff.
That is connected by the change servo motor by sliding a ring over the spline to the wheel on that side. RHS I think on yours, and it may be expelling the drive ring under load and when less load is there it may be trying to re enter the spline, ie, trying re establish drive.
That could mean the spline is twisted and requires replacement. This is uncommon but has been known to occur.

Have someone check it out for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 626
Location: adelaide hills
mydmax wrote:
garrytre
I would be suspecting the SOTF system and if there is no wiring/cabling and connecting plugs causing the intermittent operation I would look as the short drive shaft which is in one side of the front diff.
That is connected by the change servo motor by sliding a ring over the spline to the wheel on that side. RHS I think on yours, and it may be expelling the drive ring under load and when less load is there it may be trying to re enter the spline, ie, trying re establish drive.
That could mean the spline is twisted and requires replacement. This is uncommon but has been known to occur.

Have someone check it out for you.


yes thanks mydmax. With lots of thinking I'd worked out something similar, from my non-tech point of view. Finally the penny dropped that 2WD -> 4WD doesn't happen in the transfer case, it happens at the RH front axel, as you say, and that would be what fails to definitely engage at times.

I'll print that off for them, might be useful.

A major part of my concern is to have it documented & acknowledged by IUA that this problem is happening, so that when something breaks they can't just say I was too rough. Like in the manual where it says "don't engage 4WD when the wheels are spinning.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:22 am
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Location: adelaide hills
so I went today and as with any intermittent problem it didn't happen.

The mechanic said something that suggested that a change from 2WD -> 4WD involves gears or splines or whatever (you know I'm not a tech) not just on the SOTF, but also inside the transfer case. So I questioned him closely. He confirmed that when I change from 2WD -> 4WD -> 2WD, gears engage & disengage both within the transfer case, and in the SOTF mechanism.

Up til now, I'd understood that engaging 4WD only happened in the SOTF mechanism on the front right axle casing. Why in both places?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Location: adelaide hills
Today I had an episode that seemed to be momentarily falling out of 4WD, then in again. Not dissimilar to what I've written above. Hasn't happened for maybe a year.

I probably wouldn't write it on here except that maldotcom2 might be having the same prob. http://www.newd-max.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2378
And I wonder if it could also be the cause of the particular vehicles that are always breaking CV's, via sudden shock loading. I must admit, I'd always had visions of the sliding sleeve in the front R axle stripping splines, but maybe the CV's are just that little bit weaker. Don't know. As regulars here know, I'm long on bright ideas, short on mechanical knowledge, so I'll leave it there.


So between my house and the bitumen there are 3 hills, one quite steep and at the moment after the rain, a pile of loose rubble. How steep? Nominally a gazetted road, but I've had to tow &/or drive other people's cars/truck up it after they've wheelspun a hole in the road, or slid backward.

So approaching the steep bit, 2WD -> 4WD, the dashboard 4WD light flashes for a few seconds and then goes steady. Up the hill I go, as always a bit loose & scrabbly. Bang & lurch, now going up the hill a bit better, definitely in 4WD now. So I'm thinking that 4WD engaged after the light went steady, and after I had my foot down.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Geez the rabbit hole goes even deeper, just when I thought I could throw a new CV in and be done with it. I've had a read of this thread Garry, and while my issue could be caused by the same component as yours, mine just won't shift, period. Which could be a blessing, because it's guaranteed to be on display when I send the ute to the workshop.

Ugh I bought a Dmax because I thought they'd have a robust drive train that wouldn't let me down on long trips. Now I'm feeling like there is just too much to go wrong too easily, if I was on my planned Cape York trip it'd be game over right now. I consider myself mechanically minded but all these sensors and computers are the brainchild of latte sipping electrical engineers, not the blokes with black hands.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:22 am 
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Location: adelaide hills
I'm just reading 'Black Swan' a book about statistics, averages, bell curves, outliers etc etc. Not recommending it, but it's what's in my mind now. So..

I wouldn't totally condemn DMax yet. Given that it's not a landcruiser (I've even snapped a gbox mainshaft on one of those), a DMax seems to be a bit better than average for all of what I call '2WD utes converted to 4WD' - Ford Rangers, Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara etc etc. The law of averages says that every now & then there'll be a problem. And the more common problems will be more likely to get the resources to solve them, ie so not happen, and the rarer problems will be the ones that there isn't an easy fix for. So for individuals afflicted with a problem, it's not good news, but overall the brand is still good.

Of course that doesn't help you.

And yes I gotta agree about all the electronics. I felt pretty helpless & cut off at the knees when I first got it, couldn't simply run wires all over the place & tek screw stuff to the dashboard, but I'm kinda used to it now.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:59 am 
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garrytre
MAny mechanics don't know what is inside a transfer case. All these utes are different to thebigger Toyota transfer cases where gears did change,ie slid to engage.

In the Isuzu, there is an epicyclic gear train which allows straight drive OR low range.
The way it operates is to hold or release parts of the drive system so a straight through 1 to 1 is achieved or the epicyclic system releases and holds different sections by sliding a fork and ring to engage the lock of the drive members.
There is no gear changing as such because the gears are always engaged with the same gears sun/planetary and ring. Very similar to an auto box where once again there is NEVER any gears selected, only ratios of planetary various systems to alter mechanical advantage / speed.

People talk about changing gears when in most/many cases what they are driving is only selecting set predetermined ratios.

In an 8 speed VW Amarok box there is NO gear changing happening, only clutch selection of set ratios all ready to be selected.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Location: adelaide hills
mydmax. Fair enough, but I don't think my prob is with H-L. I think it's with 2WD - 4WD. I've had the big clunk in both high & low. Interesting about planetary gears though, I'd always assumed we had clusters on shafts.
T Model fords had planetary gears too, must be good.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:45 am 
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Location: adelaide hills
So today, acting on the thud & clunk 5/1/17 above, I took the car to Isusu for another look. I didn't expect the rare & intermittent event to happen, and as expected, it didn't.

But the guy did advise me to ensure that 4WD had engaged by putting the car in reverse, go back a bit, put it in first, go forward a bit, back, forward, to make sure things had engaged. So much for 'Shift on the Fly' up to 100km/hr. Same advice with H-L, except to change when moving slowly, directly opposite of what the manual says.

Lots of questions now. Given the errors and stupidos in the owner's manual, is this the ACTUAL IUA advice now? (As opposed to the OFFICIAL IUA advice in the book.) Or is it just as the mechanic said, it's what he does in his cars. (Really?)

Hmm.... To be continue, I'm sure.

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