NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM

NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Posts: 1581
Meggs
Are you assuming the fluid was red when new and now brownish looking???
Do you know the original colour?

Many fluids now are not red like everyone expects. Best to check before becoming alarmed over something which may not be happening.



Edit. Stupid Ipad I used, belonging to a friend, changes words and so meggs became other.


Last edited by mydmax on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Location: Central Queensland
Yes as the 3309 they say in the book is red in colour so I am assuming if they added the fluid they specify which is Mobil ATF 3309.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm 
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I am not sure, but the lube oils from Thailand may not be the ones actually named in the book.
Probably there are a couple or more, different brand oils listed, and some may not be the traditional red of Mobil auto fluid.

eg, Many OE diff oils are far clearer than anything you can buy in OZ. Others may have drained the original auto fluid and refilled a trans and may have noticed a different colour of the original fluid. I haven't, so can't say for sure.
Some of the autos I have rebuilt have not had only red oil in them.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:44 pm 
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Location: Central Queensland
Gee that sure complicate things. I am familiar with the different colours of fluid from Thailand the coolant is a case in point.
I am now in a dilemma as to the signs of needing a fluid change, go to Izuzu dealer I'm sure you will get a couple of answers depending where you go from " no they are lifetime" to "yes we will change it for you for $$$$"
I wonder if anyone else has had this experience?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:46 am 
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meggs
This situation has arisen before.
Unless you get a person in a dealership who has actually noticed the colour of OE fluid when they changed one, they won't know what colour OE fluid is. Then they have to remember accurately to pass on the info. Then again you have to find someone who has changed the fluid. Many haven't. Only the person who drains it will be able to tell you, any other in the dealership can tell you anything. No surety there at all.


If getting a dealer to change fluid, you will want to know exactly what they do,
Is it a pan drain and refill? that is not much use with less than 50% actually being changed. Major volume in torque converter is left untouched and still dirty.
OR
Are they going to drain from the, return to auto line, and keep filling and flushing until it runs a new clean fluid colour? Torque converter fluid changed then. That is most important. It also takes 12 or more litres of fluid to effect a change which can be called CHANGED.

Clean fluid of correct type is the best thing in an auto, not a shandy of old and new. Not many places really change the fluid.
Unless the auto is run through the various functions 1st to 6th and reverse while the change is happening, then the servo pistons and chambers and valve body never operate to expell or accept new fluid to flush these areas. Has to be wheels off the deck to do that.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:30 am 
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Location: Central Queensland
mydmax wrote:
meggs
This situation has arisen before.
Unless you get a person in a dealership who has actually noticed the colour of OE fluid when they changed one, they won't know what colour OE fluid is. Then they have to remember accurately to pass on the info. Then again you have to find someone who has changed the fluid. Many haven't.


Only been to a dealership once when I had to get a leaking rear transmission seal replaced under warranty. They are unlikely to give me the information I want and besides you can never get to see the person who does the job.
My mechanic might be able to tell me as he is pretty good on giving out info to me.


mydmax wrote:
If getting a dealer to change fluid, you will want to know exactly what they do,
Is it a pan drain and refill? that is not much use with less than 50% actually being changed. Major volume in torque converter is left untouched and still dirty.


Yes I know how it should be changed but they can tell me anything dealers are in the buisness of selling. I will be taking it to a specialist in auto transmissions and they are pretty light on the ground here.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:50 pm 
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As a follow up for anyone interested. Went to a transmission specialist and I said my oil is black and I want a complete fluid change. He quoted me $500 but cautioned me that it may not be necessary to pump out all of the old oil as the colour I have observed could be normal as the “world standard” oil from new in these transmissions are very light in colour with a hint of red in it. He said it also might be a good idea to change the filter. I left my vehicle with him to do the service.
He did the job and said the oil was ok but he replaced it. His method is to remove the pan and crack the valve body for 30 min as this bypasses the torque converter auto drain back valve and additionally allows the accumulator to drain as well.
He showed me the filter and it had a very light coating of grey to black on it and when you look a a small sample of oil it looked better than in a bottle.
The job cost $380.
He did say the Asian transmissions are very good and Toyota also use the same transmission.

So mydmax you were correct as far as the oils are concerned.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:17 pm 
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G'day meggs,
it is good to have the fluid changed but I am puzzled as to how removing the valve body from it's seating can drain the torque converter any more than half of it's fluid.
Imagine a doughnut on it's edge. The fluid can only drain from the centre of the torque converter and it is impossible to drain the lower half. A significant amount of fluid is held in there.
Either, complete removal of the transmission and torque converter, OR running the engine and allowing fluid to escape into a can and replenished constantly/at intervals when spurting happens, so a complete as possible fluid change is achieved. This is the only way to change it thoroughly.

Having loosened the valve body is unlikely to change the accumulator chamber or any servo chamber as they hang onto fluid even if taken completely off the vehicle. Only repeated cyclic operation through the gears, wheels off the deck can eventually effect a change of their internal fluid.
I have changed quite a few and never removed or loosened the valve body on any vehicle to change fluid. If it has a gasket or O rings, sometimes small, they can be dislodged or broken by doing that.

I don't like his method at all. Having rebuilt quite a few and done internal mods of some Front wheel drive autos I can't agree with unbolting the valve body. Yes if further service and auto disassembly is required.

The filter in an auto is not particularly fine and allows deposits of wear particles and worn friction to settle where it likes to. Inside chambers and valve body passages along with the general internals is normal, all autos have it, unless fitted with a large capacity fine filter in the radiator lines, to catch it.
The metalic and friction material deposits is what I have disassembled many transmission to clean out, as flushing doesn't seem to move it out. Best to keep it clean.

It is fun having every part of a transmission and valve body as parts on a bench.
Anyway, it is good your fluid is cleaner and ready for work.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:56 am 
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I should have said he told me it drains a lot of the torque converter but as he assessed that my oil was ok it was just a case of adding the max amount of oil without pumping out (which he could have done as I left him with the ok to do just that). As the oil was ok it has now been considerably diluted with fresh oil so in 20k I can do a pan drain myself and add fresh oil. As I said my concern was the colour but as you said it could be normal but now it has red oil added so that should eliminate the confusion in the future. A bit like the coolant colour confusion I had mentioned before.

As for cracking the valve body I assume he knew what he was doing as he has been doing nothing but auto transmissions for over 20 yrs. A bit like me going for surgery and telling the surgeon how to do his job when I only have limited knowledge.

In my investigation from a few sources that the dealers contract out this type of work to external transmission people same as auto electrical work, tyres etc.

I saw the filter and the gauze was very fine.


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