NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM

NEW D-MAX /MUX /COLORADO FORUM
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:41 am
Posts: 109
Location: Brisbane
After the new lift went in, my next limiting factor is the factory upper control arms.

They are restricting the overall lift due to the lack of down travel they produce, also the wheel alignment is below average to say the least, way to much negative camber and no where near enough castor.

My research so far has come up with 3.5 solutions so far,

ROADSAFE BLACKHAWK
http://roadsafe.com.au/upper-control-arms-uca/
PRO'S
- greasable, OE style ball joint with dust cap
- clearance for extra down travel
CON's
- limited camber & castor adjustment

SPECIALITY PRODUCTS COMPANY
http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=25620
PRO's
- greasable, larger ball joint with 80 degrees of articulation
- adjustment happens in the balljoint itself
- 4+- degree camber and 5+- degree castor
clearance for extra down travel
CON's
- exposed ball joint
- ball joints are known to fail by 30,000kms (maybe due to lack of maintenance with grease)
- $150 replacement per ball joint
- balljoint adjuster could come loose

BAJA KITS
http://www.bajakits.com/i-26932203-2015-holden-colorado-2wd-4wd-boxed-upper-control-arm.html?ref=category:1339690
Can't find any actual details



Has anyone got any of these or others with some feedback?


Last edited by MAT713 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 1595
What is redistricting?

Any raising of the vehicle will result in grossly increased camber and if too far the OE adjustment provided will not cater for it.
The out end arc path of the upper arm will fold in markedly as it lowers, it of course leaves it's relativity to the out end of the bottom arm, and the result is definitely more neg camber. You knew that before raising I presume. You can see that action if simply jack up an OE vehicle.

Once you ask for more the problems start.
Did you determine the droop possibly before the lift. It should remain the same as it is limited by the design. That is a given before you start mods.

With relation to after market arms.
If you know they fail then that is a decider isn't it?

Why do after market ball joints need greasing?aren't they made properly with a sealed boot?
Having adjustment, I presume you mean camber caster, out at the end of the arm is a sus idea to me. Maybe for competition work but for a road car where legality and your life is included in the deal. no!
Instant NO insurance if an assessor has to see your vehicle.

For droop clearance after a lift, the spacing of the ball joint is possibly the best way and it has a reasonable degree of integrity. Apparently frowned upon though.

All that said, if you look at a BT50 or Ranger, it is amazing the upper ball joint stays in place since it is only pressed into a thin bit of sheet metal called and upper arm and that is all which holds it there.
I though that idea went out many years ago. Must be cheap and cost effective.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
Posts: 3233
Location: Darwin... sort of.
How much did you lift it? my car with a genuine 50-55mm lift on the front (too much) was still able to be wheel aligned with the camber still in factory specs, you will always lose castor slightly but not enough to notice through the steering wheel much (may not self centre as quickly) and with my tyres rotated at 10000 or so always wore flat. This is not always the case as I know of some cars that will never get factory camber even with a 40mm lift but it's rare, the trick for me was to find a wheel aligner who actually knows what they're doing (this is rare these days) if you were in Darwin I could point you straight to the right person but that won't help you. Don't assume just because one wheel aligner can't get it that it can't be done, they are very lazy these days.

Keep in mind that aftermarket UCA's will not get you any significant further down travel, you're talking 30mm or so at best and with twin lockers it'll make no difference at all offroad other than to put a big hole in your wallet and further strain on already suspect CV joints and possibly insurance issues without expensive certification.
Your biggest restriction to down travel is actually the sway bar and you can actually gain nearly 30mm of down travel by disconnecting it if you want, I put pics on here somewhere of that on my car. Good for offroad but not so much on...

Oh and keep in mind it's likely to drop up to 40mm at the back when you load it up and head off on your trip so levelling it out empty will create problems later, the solution for me was to remove a leaf until we were ready to go.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:05 pm
Posts: 12
Location: NORTH BRISVEGAS
I see you are in Brisbane. Col Robinson steering 3350 4000 is one of the best for wheel alignments
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 3:32 pm
Posts: 263
Location: Hornsby NSW
I have 40mm of the lift in the front. Measured by a NSW engineer.
They couldn't get my camber back after the lift. I have aftermarket UCA's in.
The middle type on your list. Prob done 10-15,000km on them. Seem to be going ok and tyre wear is even now.
With the factory UCA I had pretty bad camber wear.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm
Posts: 3233
Location: Darwin... sort of.
freezy11 wrote:
I have 40mm of the lift in the front. Measured by a NSW engineer.
They couldn't get my camber back after the lift. I have aftermarket UCA's in.
The middle type on your list. Prob done 10-15,000km on them. Seem to be going ok and tyre wear is even now.
With the factory UCA I had pretty bad camber wear.


That's exactly what I was told by an "aligner" after I lifted my vehicle...."there's too much negative camber and there's nothing we can do, there's just not enough adjustment" it was then corrected by someone who knew what they were doing to well within factory specs luckily because UCA's weren't available at the time (again luckily or I may not have pursued it further and found the right person) so it makes me wonder how many people are modifying their vehicles of any make unnecessarily.
Anyone having these issues after a lift should definitely ask around and seek a 2nd or third opinion because most largish towns have at least one guru in my experience who might be able to sort it, that is unless you live in Townsville.... :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 1595
Since the vehicles are made in the same spec jigs, ie, quality controlled, and the components used are made to the same specs within at least 0.1mm, much better really, I canot see why someone who lifts their vehicle and gets the alignment within normal is successful and others aligners can't get the camber within specs with the same lift.

Perhaps the 40mm lift some people have, is measured in a different place to where others measure their lift OR some have far more lift than they know of.
The same angular change of upper and lower control arms must occur with the same degree of lift. Therefore, the sideways shift of the outer ball joint has to be within a very close amount to others who do the same.
Although many many places do alignments and have fancy stuff with flashing lights and beams and digital readouts, the brains and abilities of those who use the gear remains the same. Most do not have much if any mechanical understanding and don't understand what alignment is, particularly the effects of differing caster.

I purchased some Goodyear Duratracs for offroad use. The local dealer who has been in the tyre and aligning industry for more than 30 years, said I would need the excessive tow in adjusted if it is lifted.
I didn't accept his offer, because lifting definitely causes too much toe OUT because of the design.. He argued and argued and said that didn't happen because he knows because of his experience. How wrong he is. He became very arrogant as he was demanding I listen to him. He didn't get any alignment money because I do it myself. It isn't very difficult.
Only someone who actually knows, what is what, should touch your vehicle. Most have little idea after doing the 5 minute course in wheel alignment and fiddle around with their expensive machine until it tells them it thinks it is ok.
There are very good aligners around, but hard to find like hens teeth.


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